Alex Lifeson & Geddy Lee Talk About The Making Of Different Stages
Spirit Of Rush #45 - Winter 1998-1999, transcribed by pwrwindows
Alex Lifeson Talks Candidly With Spirit Of Rush
SOR: The release date of Different Stages was put back from October to November why was this?
Alex: Yes, that's right. We wanted to add a couple of additional tracks to it, one to each CD. I just received the EQ reference CDs at the end of August with the two songs added (Analog Kid and Show Don't Tell). The artwork is being sent to my house as we speak, for my final approval - Geddy has already seen and approved it, then it's off to the presses from here.
SOR: Who did the artwork for the cover?
Alex: Hugh Syme once again, our old friend has come up with the goods.
SOR: Why did you choose to put songs like Closer, Radio, Sawyer, etc. onto Different Stages when they have already been on live releases in the past?
Alex: To repeat certain songs I don't think really hurts us, 'Closer To The Heart' is so different on each live record that it's nice to have it there as a marker... to chart the development of a song over a long period of time.
SOR: Are you happy with the overall sound on Different Stages compared to your previous live albums?
Alex: Yes, we are so happy with the way this sounds. It's got power and depth, good separation, a fine distinction between the instruments and yet the audience is wrapped around you. Having never seen Rush live (laughs) it's difficult for me to say but I hope this is how we do come across in a live setting. Paul Northfield did a fine job in mixing it.
SOR: Going back in time to the Hammersmith Odeon in 1978, why did you record a live performance so soon after the release of All The World's A Stage?
Alex: We were offered the chance to record for a radio special (not the BBC) so that's why we did it. Once we had listened to it we didn't think it was up to standard. I remember that Geddy was having throat problems at the time, so we shelved it - put it away in the bowels of our office here in Toronto and promptly forgot all about it. When they were renovating our offices about four years ago they came across the boxes and gave them to Geddy and I. We took them away and had a listen to them and thought they sounded a lot better than we thought they would from our memory of that recording. The tapes were remarkably well preserved for 20 year old analog tapes. They're not good enough to release as a live record in their own right (I disagree - ED) but in terms of this packaging and keeping the retail price as low as possible, this third CD comes out as a nice free bonus for our fans.
SOR: What differences did you detect in your playing when you listened to the old and new live recordings?
Alex: When listening, it's hard to be objective, but what I remember most about the Hammersmith show is what the stage looked like, my dressing room, what I was wearing etc... the red housecoat, I think (laughs). It evoked so many other memories for me in terms of our history. In terms of the playing, I think it sounds very youthful. I guess we were only 23/24 at the time and very excited to be doing what we were doing. When I listen to the current live recordings I hear a maturity and confidence in our playing now. The control when we play now is much better, back then it was adrenaline and youthful abandon. Now, it's all about pacing the show the dynamics of it all - the subtle internal parts that the show is now that maybe it wasn't back then. As we've gotten older, we've matured in many ways and I think the live show has as well... it's a natural development and evolution of our profession. We've taken things to a level where we're very confident in the control of what we do... the youthful spiritedness that we had in the past was a part of where we were then, a part of where every young band is at that point in their careers. In the overall scheme of things it's very difficult to feel 25 when you're 45 (laughs) no matter how hard you try, it just doesn't happen... your brain is in a different place... along with your knees and your elbows (laughs) and all those other potentially sore parts of your body. It's senseless to try and recapture that, it just doesn't exist anymore. You can take it to a whole different level and find great reward and satisfaction in being able to have that kind of confidence in where you have taken your craft.
SOR: Why will you not be putting out a live concert video to accompany the release of Different Stages as you did with A Show Of Hands?
Alex: We did film our first (of two) nights in Toronto last year (June 30th '97), as I already mentioned we have only just given our approval for the CDs and cover of the live record - everything is very fresh and we want to get this out and let it walk it's own path and then tackle some other things, one of which would be the video. We recorded that night in Toronto which I haven't seen myself, but Geddy has looked at some of it so it may turn out to be the next project we will work on in the short term. Then, in the new year, we'll try and decide about where we're going to go from there.
SOR: In the light of Neil's tragic recent losses, do you see Rush continuing as a unit in future?
Alex: That as you can imagine, is very difficult to answer. I don't think anyone could imagine what a difficult period this has been for Neil, for all of us... but mostly for Neil. It's a very private matter and we're all dealing with it as best we can. Everyday things get a little bit better so we have our fingers crossed that sometime in the very near future we can decide where we're going to take the band. To say anything else would be pure speculation at this point in time. Right now, our focus is on Different Stages... it's a great package of Rush stuff from a number of years. The actual cover and packaging is really great. We've included a lot of personal little bits and pieces that we've collected over the years. It's really a joy to look at... it evokes many great memories for me of many great times. Hopefully in the future we can plan for more great times.
SOR: Do you think if the band continues, we could persuade you to come and play 'An Evening With Rush' to us European audiences?
Alex: The problem in the past has been that we have cut back on our touring schedule and unfortunately if we are only going to do 70 or so shows instead of hundreds like we used to in the past, then we have to concentrate on America. In the future, depending on what our touring plans are, we would love to get back over and play in Europe. We have requests to go and play in a lot of places so we'll just have to wait and see what the future holds for us. The last time we came over to Europe for the Roll The Bones shows we had hoped to get more support from our record company at the time, but I guess their priorities were somewhere else and it was hard for us to get a substantial commitment from them for the support we needed to reestablish ourselves in Europe.
SOR: Unfortunately, the record company here never seems to support you in the way we feel they should.
Alex: Yes, unfortunately you're right, which is a shame. Back in 1978/79 it was a different story... we had a different following back then I think - a stronger following and it wasn't so bad to come to Europe and not have record company support. We were at a different level at the time. We could come over, and in terms of a whole tour, if we lost money we could absorb that loss which we did on a number of those early tours. It's a lot different now. To take a show like 'An Evening With Rush' and fifty or so crew members to Europe for a month is a very difficult commitment to make now.
SOR: It's a fact of life that record companies here (UK) do not really support rock bands much anymore. They're more interested in other genres of music at the moment which leaves the rock music fan here, out in the wilderness. Some of the other N. American bands we follow, have toured here recently with a scaled down show. Could you not do the same with Rush - play theatres again rather than arenas?
Alex: Well, I really do like playing in small venues... you know I have the Orbit Room here and I do play down there when I get the chance. We did a show here at the Phoenix Theatre back in December of '96 (The Molson Secret Show - ED) which to do once in a while is great fun, but in terms of balancing the budget on a tour it would become very hard indeed to carry the show that we have. To scale it down to a small theatre and do a week or two in the UK and several more in Europe would be virtually impossible to do because that's not where we're at anymore in terms of our production... the show is what it is and it has become a very integrated presentation now. To not include the video screen and lasers and all the other things that have become an important part of a Rush show, we think would short change our European audience, which we don't want to do. We would still love to come over and play a handful of shows at the larger arenas, so let's hope we can.
SOR: Things have certainly changed here in the UK now regarding arena-sized venues. We have several new ones now in Manchester, Newcastle, Cardiff and a couple in Scotland worth a look. So you would not have to do multiple nights at Wembley or the NEC in Birmingham anymore, you could spread things around now and perhaps attract more fans to the gigs because they wouldn't have to travel so far to a show.
Alex: Exactly, that would be real nice.
SOR: Do you have any plans for Victor again?
Alex: No, I have none at the moment. I guess in the time between the two legs of the last tour and the time since the tour finished there was some stuff that I did. I probably have ten or fifteen songs that I've put together as exercises more than anything else really, but I'm not committing myself to another Victor project at this time. At some point in the future I will definitely do something like that again... I'd love to.
SOR: And live Victor/solo shows?
Alex: We did consider it after the release of Victor but then I committed myself to Rush and Test For Echo. Once we had completed Test For Echo I had a five month window that I could have gone on the road with, but everyone else who would have been involved with me were committed to their own projects, so we couldn't get it together. To do it properly I would like to get another album under my belt... to cull enough material to flesh out a good live set to make it all worthwhile. Anything's possible.
SOR: In hindsight, which era of your career has been the most fulfilling?
Alex: That's very difficult to answer because in a lot of ways what we did in the beginning was very rewarding... the kind of success that we started to have around 1978 was our first step forward and then with Moving Pictures that was another much bigger leap forward. The independence that we felt after 2112 was a very important period for us. The last tour was, I think, one of the best that we have ever done - certainly one of the most pleasing tours to do for many reasons. Physically and emotionally we all played really, really well. Doing the 'Evening With...' that was something we had wanted to do for a long time and it was very rewarding to have been as successful as we were with that in terms of the way the band came across. I thought we sounded well. It's tough to pick just one time as being the most fulfilling - we've had a lot of peaks and a few valleys (laughs)... but mostly peaks I think.
SOR: What music are you listening to yourself at the moment?
Alex: I haven't really been listening to that much recently, it's been a funny period for me this past year. I've been finding it difficult to really get into working around music - playing or listening to much. It's been a bit of a roller coaster ride for me in that sense. I have recently been getting into a little bit more work... I have started to pick up my guitars again - a lot of acoustic stuff, funny tunings and things like that - so that's been getting the creative juices going. I've been spending a little bit of time in the studio... I have some feelers out for some small independent projects to work as a producer or arranger... a couple of remix things for some friends of mine, so I'm starting to get busier now and into the Fall. I'll be getting busier which I'm getting excited about - the fact that I'm playing more now is also a good thing. While doing Victor I spent so much time playing in that period, then I had three weeks off before we went into the studio to work on Test For Echo... so I went through a period of about 18 months where I was playing constantly. I really liked the way that felt, I felt rejuvenated and of course I continued to play a lot during the last tour. Then when everything happened last summer I kind of got away from it for a long while, but now I'm getting back into a routine of playing for my own enjoyment again, which is promising.
SOR: You did play the 'White Ribbon' benefit show a while back, did you enjoy being on stage again?
Alex: Yes, that was great, a lot of fun. It was very well organised so a bunch of us got up and played one or two songs. The Dexters - the Orbit Room house band were the backing band for the evening. They're all great musicians and the perfect choice for that sort of gig because they are so on time all the time. It went really well and they raised a lot of money for a very good cause. We all had a great time with it.
SOR: You did play at several 'Kumbaya' festivals as well in the past, will there be any more of them?
Alex: I'm not exactly sure when they did the last one, although I do know that they changed the format - rather than having just one show here in Toronto they spread it out across the country doing smaller shows as they went, a 'Kumbaya' tour if you will... and I'm not sure if it was as successful as doing just the one big show. I remember the last time I did it there were a lot of last minute cancellations - a lot of big names who had committed to doing it pulled out and Molly (the organiser) was really disappointed because she had worked very hard to try and get some big names to gain more exposure. She was really hurt by it - she had the wind knocked out of her.
SOR: Do you still fly your plane when you can?
Alex: Yes, I do, but I haven't done so much recently. I did do some flying during the last tour... about 20 hours or so, in the plane that we had chartered... which was the very first time that we had done that for a tour. Geddy, Liam and Peter used to come up with me - a real small crew (laughs). It was a Beach King Air, a turbo prop which the guy's invited me to sit up and fly some of the legs. It was terrific, real fun to do. I really haven't flown too much over the past couple of years, so it was nice to do it.
SOR: We saw you flying the air force jet plane in Alberta a few years ago on Much Music. You looked like you really enjoyed that.
Alex: Oh yeah, that was a lot of fun, an experience I will never forget.
SOR: How about your cooking... you used to do a lot for the band in the past. Are you still hard at it in the kitchen?
Alex: Yes, I've been cooking like crazy (laughs). I love cooking, it really became a very creative outlet for me. My wife has her own business which has become quite busy over the past couple of years and with me having had some time off it kind of became my responsibility over that period of time. It became a challenge and lots of fun to try and be creative, so we ended up having a couple of dinner parties a month where we would invite anywhere between 8 and 20 people over for a meal. It's a real challenge to cook for 20 people - it's all about timing, getting the right courses at the right time. I'm a bit of a stickler in the kitchen and I don't like other people around.
SOR: Any work on the inventing front lately?
Alex: No, not really. Everything's been invented (laughs).
SOR: I know that we're supposed to be talking about Different Stages but it's difficult to ask questions about something we've only just heard nine songs from. Perhaps this is a little early (mid-Sept) to be doing interviews for something due out in the middle of November?
Alex: Yes well (laughs) I would think that would be the case (more laughs). I've been speaking to people for the last five hours - German and Dutch press and they haven't heard anything. All they had was a list of the songs. This underlines what I said earlier about the record company (in Europe) and their lack of commitment.
SOR: Why did you play '2112' on the last tour with a Les Paul and not the PRS?
Alex: I just wanted a change. I thought that the Les Paul was the perfect choice for something like '2112' because I didn't have a vibrato arm back then so I didn't need one now. The Les Paul is a fun guitar to play - it's got a nice weight and that classic look to it. It was fun to mix the guitars up a little bit and not just fall back on the usual standard instruments that I normally play.
SOR: You have to keep 'JJ' on his feet!
Alex: Yeah, not drinking coffee and eating potato chips all day (laughs). I think you'll really notice the weight of the guitar sound of '2112' on Different Stages when you hear it.
SOR: We are holding our third Rush Convention in Leicester this coming Saturday, do you have anything to say to the fans who are attending or reading 'The Spirit Of Rush'?
Alex: Please accept my apologies for not getting over to Europe more often. I really do appreciate that everybody has stuck with us for so long now. It has been a very long journey hasn't it (laughs)... I really do think that all the fans will really enjoy this Different Stages package, we have worked really very hard to keep the price as low as we could... to make the Hammersmith disk a free one - as much as one can anyway. Most of the credit for this must go to Geddy - he has worked by far the hardest in getting it all together. He was at the studio almost every day with Paul. I went in seldom and made only minor changes, so this is really Ged's baby. The cover is a real joy to look at and really brought a lump to our throats when we were going through all of our stuff. We all have our own collections of memorabilia dating back through the years. I really do feel that our fans will like it a lot.
SOR: When we spoke to 'JJ' he mentioned that you store everything in a warehouse in Toronto.
Alex: All our equipment yes. Over the years you never know what you might need. There's such an interest in retro that you never know if something you used 15 years ago might become relevant now. It's impossible to get in this warehouse - it's stacked to the ceiling and it's a very big warehouse (laughs). It houses all of our current gear as well as tons and tons of old stuff.
Geddy Lee Talks Exclusively To Spirit Of Rush About The Making Of Different Stages
SOR: Whose idea was it to use the theme from the movie 2001 to open your shows?
Geddy: That was me, I have to take the blame for that one.
SOR: Is it a favourite film of yours?
Geddy: No. It's just that I came up with this idea to do a satirical take on the images presented in the film. I thought it would be humorous to take the nut and bolt from the cover of Counterparts and put them in a sci-fi setting - which of course many fans would hopefully enjoy. I thought it was funny that these two pieces of hardware would couple at the crescendo of the music made famous in 2001. It was all in the aid of a comic opening.
SOR: You got the production credit of Different Stages all to yourself, can you tell us about the workload involved with producing?
Geddy: Paul Northfield and myself did the majority of the work, Alex just popped his head in now and then to say "Hey!" (laughs) to check things out, got bored and left (more laughs). It was a quite daunting task to go and sort through all the shows that we had recorded on the Counterparts and Test For Echo tours - between 60 and 100 shows or so were recorded. Between Robert Scoville, Paul Northfield and myself we tackled it though. Robert did the most difficult task by sorting through the initial sets of tapes which were recorded in 72 tracks digital... which is a nightmare to mix like that, so they had to be mixed down to a usable 48 track format. Anything that could not be used from either a technical or performance-wise aspect was eliminated before it was mixed down. So Robert narrowed it all down to roughly 20 shows and then Paul and I stepped in to analyse the material and find what we wanted from it... rather than have three minds mulling over the final mix, which would have been a nightmare... so really it was much better to have - as 'The Troggs' would say - 'One Mind On It'.
SOR: And you were happy to be that mind?
Geddy: Yes, I'm more neurotic and masochistic (laughs) than the other two guys.
SOR: Alex mentioned that it was your baby.
Geddy: Yes, it was my baby but it was like a really "big" baby (laughs) with a huge head.
SOR: Are you happy with Paul Northfield's contribution?
Geddy: Yes, we are. He did a brilliant job on it. We were determined to make, what will more than likely be our last live album, we wanted it to be our final statement. You can't keep doing live albums forever and ever. You have to achieve what you set out to do and then move on. With our previous live albums I always thought we got close, but no cigar. With this one, I think we really nailed it down and that's largely due to Paul's insistence that we get the sounds as good as possible and sorting out which of the songs were the most vibrant.
SOR: So you think that Different Stages sounds much better than A Show Of Hands?
Geddy: Oh yes, by a long way. I think that some of the songs on here sound better than the studio versions - 'Dreamline' and 'Natural Science' to name just two. I was really pleased that we were able to find such special performances and record it in a manner that was so good... to fine tune the sound without taking the live-ness away from it. That was the important thing. Exit...Stage Left was a sophisticated sounding record, but it didn't feel very live as a result. With All The World's A Stage - the other side of the coin as it were - was too raw for me, so we got close with A Show Of Hands but this time I think we got it right. This is largely due to the people involved and the fact that we had so many shows to choose from. We were able to find some very special performances of certain songs.
SOR: Did you consider other titles before settling on Different Stages?
Geddy: Yes, we had a few others kicking around (laughs).
SOR: Did you notice anything specific about the changes in your voice over the years when you listened to the 'Hammersmith '78' tapes compared with the shows you had recorded on the last two tours?
Geddy: Once I'd gone through puberty, I noticed a change in my voice (laughs) but I do think my voice had changed dramatically between now and 1978.
SOR: Did you enjoy listening to the old Hammersmith recording?
Geddy: Yes, it was fun and I was surprised at the quality of the performance and of the recording as well... although there are a few songs on there where my voice was a little ragged and I remembered that at the time I had a cold, which is why we never used it on the radio. Nonetheless, we felt it had something that would be interesting for the fans to listen to and it would be nice to include it in the live package as a bonus for our fans, was what motivated me. It was a special time for us, that period, when we spent a lot of time in London working, recording etc. We all have a lot of memories from that period.
SOR: Did you have to patch any of the Hammersmith recording up at all?
Geddy: No, not much. What you hear is pretty much what you get (laughs). We only fixed a couple of out of tune guitars, if I remember correctly.
SOR: The Hammersmith show sounds very raw, like you mentioned earlier about All The World's A Stage - compared to the other two discs.
Geddy: Yes, a different kind of energy and band architecture back then. Complexities were overt back then in '78, whereas there's more that's intrinsic in the fabric of the material now. I feel that is the most dramatic difference.
SOR: Looking back to the 'An Evening With Rush' tour, did you enjoy it and did it work for you?
Geddy: Yes, to me it was the best tour we have ever done.
SOR: Why did you stop using the Rickenbacker guitars?
Geddy: I just wanted a change of sound. I have thought about bringing them back once in a while, but I like the Fender basses a lot. I still have all my old Rickenbackers though.
SOR: Are Fender going to put out a Geddy Lee signature edition bass guitar?
Geddy: Yes, I have been working with them to try and reproduce my '72 bass right down to the measurements between pick-ups. They have done a great job and will be releasing a limited edition sometime very soon. I'm not exactly sure when though.
SOR: Looking back, now that it's a couple of years old, how do you feel about Test For Echo?
Geddy: I'm still pleased with it. For me it's one of our better albums. I like the songwriting a lot and the sound of it is very satisfying. I think it's the best one of the last three or four that we've done.
SOR: How involved were you with the Mercury remastered editions of your albums Rush through A Show Of Hands and are you happy with the finished results that you have heard?
Geddy: We had a lot of input, it was a deal that we came up with between us and them (Mercury). They wanted to put together the greatest hits packages (Retrospectives I & II) - we agreed to that if they would remaster all the albums beforehand and release them in their original packaging for our fans to listen to them how we would have liked them to.
SOR: They were all released at very attractive prices as well.
Geddy: Yes, they did a great job. They were very cooperative with us. Bob Ludwig re-mastered all of them and I approved all of them once he was done. The people at Polygram (Mercury) were just fantastic in dealing with all of that, they really pulled it off. I think all the remasters series sound great in their new form. We are very happy with them ourselves.
SOR: Why didn't you play any of the songs from Presto on the 'Evening With Rush' tour?
Geddy: We just didn't feel the material on that album matched up, we only have "x" amount of time to play and with the passage of time I don't think that that material stands up to the other material that we have any more. (see Ged's note below regarding 'The Pass' - ED).
SOR: Do you have any plans for a solo record in the near future?
Geddy: Yes, I have been doing some writing with various people here in Toronto. I'm beginning to get a lot more interested in co-writing and producing. I think I'll go in that direction for a little while.
SOR: How involved in the Artists Against Drunk Driving campaign were the band?
Geddy: We didn't have a lot to do with it. We were asked for an endorsement and we were happy to give it. None of us I'm sure, like driving on roads if other people are doing it drunk.
SOR: Was it difficult to come up with the final track listing for Different Stages?
Geddy: Yes, it was, there were several songs which we would have liked to have included, some which we unfortunately did not record - others, like for example 'Time And Motion', we had listed on about eight boxes of shows but when I listened to the tapes, it just wasn't there. We never found a single recorded version of it - which I was very upset about. We also could not find any live recordings of 'The Pass' or 'Ghost Of A Chance'. (Neither of those songs were performed on the Counterparts or Test for Echo tours, from which these recordings were taken.) I really dug out all the songs we had which I thought really should be on there, my only regret is that some songs were overlooked, but you only have 75 minutes of time for each CD, so some things have to go I'm afraid.
SOR: Will you release a live video of the 'An Evening With Rush' tour in the future?
Geddy: Yes, I am looking at the possibility. I do have several ideas kicking around my head at present regarding the band's visual presentation. I don't think it will be a CD-ROM - I'd like to go beyond that. I'm looking at DVD at the moment, trying to gather as much information about them as I can - current availability, distribution etc. Because for me, that's the next big thing regarding exploration of visuals with the band. At the moment I do not think enough people have the machines in their homes to warrant us putting something out in this medium but I think by next Christmas (1999) the situation may have changed to make it worthwhile.
SOR: Have you looked at any of the live footage that you have in the can?
Geddy: Yes, I've looked at some of it and I'm very happy with what I've seen so far.
SOR: What types of music are you currently listening to yourself?
Geddy: I'm listening to a band called 'Mono', to the new 'Massive Attack' album, 'Ry Cooder' and 'The Cuban All Stars'... and to a collection called 'Funk and Fusion' which is really great.
SOR: Do you still collect baseball memorabilia?
Geddy: No, I haven't been collecting as much as I used to. I've kind of got enough now (laughs). I'm starting to collect wine at the moment.
SOR: Do you have a message for the readers of 'Spirit Of Rush'?
Geddy: Well, I'd like to give my regards to all you guys - thanks for sticking with us for all these years. We appreciate the loyalty of our fans and we never take you for granted and I hope one day we can get out on the road again and play for the fans in Europe... which we unfortunately don't pay enough attention to.
SOR: Are you happy with the cover of Different Stages?
Geddy: Yes, I had a lot to do with it. I worked with Hugh Syme and did a lot of organising on it. I sent it over to Alex and he loved it. There's a lot to pour over on there.