A Farewell to Kings? Maybe Not...
By Philip Wilding, Classic Rock, February 2025, transcribed by John Patuto
Celebrating half a century since their debut, we sat down with Rush's Geddy Lee and Alex Lifeson at the end of 2024 to speak about their 50 year journey from there to here - and what might come next for the Canadian prog rock legends...
The future is unwritten (and questions to Alex Lifeson and Geddy Lee about any plans for Rush are gently and politely batted back at me), although the past is littered with signposts, and unlikely trigger points, especially for two men who grew up playing and performing together for most of their adult lives. Thousands of miles - Lifeson at home in Toronto, Lee in London - and a few days apart, the bond between the two Rush members is as tangible as when they were two young men travelling in the back of a van, going from gig to gig across the Canadian wilds. They both look and sound great, vibrant and healthy, belying the fact they've both somehow reached 71. Which seems to come as something of a surprise to both of them, that they're now in what could be described as their third act.
We're here ostensibly to talk about Rush's forthcoming R50 set, the latest collection of the band's live archive housed in a lavish box with new essays. (Full disclosure: I wrote about the band from Vapor Trails through to the final show in LA and everything in between for it.) R50 also features some unreleased and hard-to-find audio from the band's very early club and high school days as well as the final song they played together as a band at the LA Forum show on the R40 tour. It's not only a thing of beauty, but also a bittersweet reminder of just how great Rush were as a live band, regardless of the decade they found themselves in. Bur, of course, that kind of live legacy only comes from the doing, and with Rush it was years and vars of playing every unlit corner of Canada until the rest of the world began to take notice.
Geddy Lee: "We had trouble breaking out of Ontario. But we played all the Toronto bars, Gasworks, Abbey Road Club, Piccadilly Tube. Are you seeing a theme here? And then Ray [Danniels], our manager at the time, would send us out to the boondocks to play bars way up north in places like Smith Falls or Thunder Bay. I have very, very vivid memories of those times. You'll notice I didn't use the word 'fond'."
Alex Lifeson: "My god, the club owner at the exotic Thunder Bay Motor Inn had us at one end of the motel, as far away as possible from the other five guests at his shitty inn."
Lee: "Boy, that was not a pleasant gig. And you're there for like, I think we were there at least a week, maybe more."
Lifeson: "Two weeks, there was virtually no heat in the two rooms the three of us were sharing."
Lee: "And the entertainment didn't get the suite. No, no, no. We had a basic, large empty room full of cots. So, you had your cot, and you'd bundle up and sometimes it'd be so cold at night that you'd sleep with your hair dryer. And in the middle of the night, you wake up and you turn the hair the dryer on under the covers to keep it warm. You'd get up in the morning and the first thing you do is take a shot of rye whiskey just to get your blood going again."
Lifeson: "I'll always remember the sound of those hairdryers under the sheets in the middle of the night. The crowds were dismal and disinterested. The guy in charge gave us some tequila before one show and so Ged and I switched instruments and played the set lying on our backs on the stage. I don't think anyone even blinked."
Lee: "And the whole time we were there, they didn't change the sign. They never announced that it was Rush that was playing. They still had the sign from three weeks ago where a band called the Amazing Kabuki was playing. So, we'd go out on stage at this particular gig, ladies and gentlemen, the Amazing Kabuki! And so, there was the stage and there was a dance floor in front of the stage. Of course, not used for Rush songs, and then there was a mirror opposite the dance floor. So, you were playing and you're kind of looking at yourself. There were two bar rooms on either side where the people, or the lack of people sit, the few stragglers. You'd get guys that were already drunk and yelling things. 'Hey, play something by Neil Young!' We also used to have to do a Saturday matinee. You came in at 1pm and there were three people in the audience. And it almost didn't matter what you played, because the three people that were there, were there to drink."
Lifeson: "I remember that mirror across from the small dance floor and there was a support pole in the middle of the room. Just sort of staring at ourselves playing. I remember the seemingly generous owner offered drinks and food on the house on occasion, which we gratefully accepted as we had no money or any kind of advance. It was such a kind gesture until we realised he deducted every a single thing from the menial performance fee that we were being paid. I think we were paid $700 per week before he deducted the 'free' club sandwiches and beers. We ended up going back home with hardly anything to show for it."
Talking of paying your dues, a real highlight of the boxset are the tracks from the Agora Ballroom in Cleveland and the Laura Secord Secondary School, both from 1974.
Lee: "Real snapshots in time. The Agora Ballroom in Cleveland, that was a really important headline gig for us, that would have been our very first tour and on that tour, we were the opening act, so you put yourself back in that mindset where we're playing generally between 26 and 40 minutes max, usually closer to 30 minutes than 40. So, by the time we came to this club show it's our headline gig and we could play every song we knew, basically. And it was a ferocious crowd, it was a hot sweaty gig. I remember the gig really, really well. We weren't begging for time on someone else's show. That was our show. And one of the first headline shows with Neil, ever. I'm glad they found some songs from that night."
Lifeson: "Cleveland was a strong market for us from the beginning and playing at this venerated club introduced Rush to a wider audience and by that, I mean it felt like it was really our audience for the first time. I recall the stage was small and we were tightly packed in there, and by the end of the show, the room was hot and sweaty, and the audience was loud and so excited. I'm pretty sure I didn't wear a top for the encore, something I could get away with fifty years ago but wouldn't dare to do now. Come to think of it, I was pissed at myself for getting my guitar strap all sweaty!"
Bad Boy is one of the songs on the boxset from that night (the Larry Williams song that The Beatles covered). How come that was in your set?
Lee: "I remember listening to the Beatles version when I was a kid and loving it. And when we were playing the bars, we needed some cover songs, or we wouldn't get hired. So, we would always pick songs by bands that had a big name, but we would pick songs that were obscure. But we could still say on our resume that we played a Beatles song. We used to do Shotgun by Jr. Walker & The All Stars too, but we would do a fifteen-minute version of it, which featured Alex Lifeson playing Echoplex and wah-wah pedals solo. Working Man, basically. The Laura Secord Secondary School show was something we actually filmed for local television in Toronto. That was spring '74, John Rutsey's on the drums and we were already starting to be kind of a name on the Ontario circuit. The first album had just come out, but only in Canada at that point, on Moon Records. So, those kids would have heard us on the radio. One of the four times a week that we a might have got some airplay. So, we were already building a kind of a fan base at that time. That was a great crowd. They were really into it."
Lifeson: "I was twenty at the time. I remember very little of the performance, I remember I was a little nervous before and how unusual it was to have a high school gig videotaped back then.I watched the clip again years ago and smiled at the image of these three young musicians I hardly recognised playing to a seated, self-conscious bunch of high schoolers. Thankfully, it provided the only video recorded performance of us with John Rutsey."
Lee: "It was that gig where we had this local, well known DJ who was the host and he introduced us and that became the impetus for what we did on R40 after the break in the set and we had Eugene Levy resurrect the character he played on SCTV [Second City Television], Rockin' Mel Slurp to bring us back out after the break, so we filmed him doing that, he was great, such a nice man."
The final song from the final show on the R40 tour - Working Man with nods to What You're Doing and Garden Road - is one other extra, which was at the point where the stage was stripped back and dressed like a high school gig. I know we've spoken before how R40 was never meant to be the final tour, but there must have been something in your collective subconscious that felt like it was saying goodbye?
Lifeson: "Not in my subconscious! It was a goodbye tour from the onset. Neil was very clear about that."
Lee: "The stage did look that way, the idea was appropriate enough for a retrospective. The fact that it was the last tour makes it more poignant, but that wasn't the purpose of it. I loved the idea of finishing the show in our earliest, most simple state. It wasn't my way of saying goodbye."
I was lucky enough to be out there for some of those final shows and you could feel Neil's mood lifting as Geddy's darkened. Where were you, Al - somewhere in between?
Lifeson: "Well, I was more in Ged's camp. We were playing well, the show was so much fun for us and our audience, and we had good energy despite playing three-hour shows in our sixties. Ged and I were disappointed that Neil demanded playing only a limited number of dates which precluded a UK and European run. I think a dozen or so more dates would have made us a bit more accepting. And there was a point where I think Neil was open a to maybe extending the run and adding in a few more shows, but then he got this painful infection in one of his feet. I mean, he could barely walk to the stage at one point. They got him a golf cart to drive him to the stage. And he played a three-hour show, at the intensity he played every single show. That was amazing, but I think that was the point where he decided that the tour was only going to go on until that final show in LA."
It felt very final when Neil stepped off the drum riser and embraced you both at the end of the show. I remember people around me gasping, one woman was crying.
Lee: "The first time in forty years he'd done that, it was a beautiful moment."
Lifeson: "I remember being on stage and thinking how many times we'd played the Forum and wondering just how many times we'd done Working Man there because it's pretty much been in the set since day one. It was a weird feeling knowing that was likely the last time we'd play any of those songs together. I tried to soak in every moment and object at that last gig. I counted down the minutes on the giant clock they have there, you can see it from the stage. And I stared at all these faces, people that I didn't know personally, yet happily greeted when I saw them return to so many of our shows over so many years; I looked at my bandmates and missed them already and I felt sad to see such joy in Neil's face when we were down to the last few bars of our last song played together, as we finally finished our set."
Of course, you returned to the Forum and Wembley Stadium when you reunited for the Taylor Hawkins tribute shows in September 2022, and played Rush songs without Neil.
Lee: "Dave [Grohl] just called me out of the blue and said, look, we're going to put together a tribute, two shows and Taylor would have loved you and Alex to be part of it. I said, well, you had me at hello. But he's very wise and he's a very smart guy, Dave. He said, look, one thing we have to do is make sure it's not just one drummer, because you don't want people thinking this is Rush 2.0. And he brought Omar Hakim on board and they both flew up to Toronto to rehearse with me and Al. They made everything so easy for us. Al and I were pretty nervous about doing that show, about being Rush again, and he did everything he could to put us at ease."And, of course, Dave introduced us to Paul [McCartney]. We were at rehearsals at a recording studio here in London. Dave came up to me and goes, have you ever met Paul? And then he went outside, and Paul said to him, I've never met the boys in Rush before and he just brought him in. He was, of course, completely charming. Just talking about the forthcoming gig, just musician to musician. Every bit a gentleman."
Even he was trying to get the band back together after Wembley.
Lee: "He was! He was so enthusiastic after our show. He was like our biggest promoter. He was trying to convince Al to go back on the road."
On that tip, after the soundcheck for the Wembley show you were both so buoyant, not to make this about 'will they or won't they reform', but that was the first time in a long time that I thought Rush, might actually go back out on tour.
Lifeson: "The energy was fantastic around that show, I know, and some days I wake up wanting to go out and tour again and some days I don't. For forty years Rush included Neil, and I don't think putting some new version together would have the same magic. It was an incredible experience working together and making so much music. It was beautiful how much we loved and respected each other, and how much we laughed but everything, amazing or not, dies eventually and we are left with the memories."After those two gigs and the months of prep Ged and I went through, I was excited by the response and to be in the dressing room again with so many fellow artists in Wembley and LA I respected and felt a kinship towards. But after a few weeks that wore off and it occurred to me that despite all the pain of loss, Rush went out on a high note playing as well as ever with one of our best stage shows on R40. I guess I'd rather be remembered for that legacy than returning as the top Rush tribute band."
Lee: "We were on a high those few days, it felt good to be playing our material and interacting with different musicians. We were always a fairly insular band. There were very few bands whose albums we played on; we didn't really interact. Which I think now Alex is making up for lost time - you'll see him busking soon. But, more seriously, it was a real vote of confidence from all these other musicians. They wanted to play with us and some of the drummers we admired so much got to share the stage. Although we were all gathered there for a very sad purpose, it couldn't help but be also a tribute to our own lost partner and a reinforcing of community. I've never seen so many musicians from different walks of life all rooting for each other. The LA show was different for me, different vibe, not quite as magical."
Was part of that because it was returning to the Forum and playing Rush songs again?
Lee: "Partly that, partly that when we were all staying at the same hotel here in London, the bar was open every night for the bands only, it was like summer camp for musicians. So that sense of community was missing. But the performance was really interesting again. But you're right, I was not myself that day of the Forum show, it wasn't lost on me. I was returning to the scene of the crime, so to speak. I was lost in thought for a lot of the day. I had a hard time connecting with people as easily as I did when we were in London. And going back there represented a lot of things to me that I was still processing."
Returning to R40, when I helped with the Q&A section of your My Effin' Life book tour in the UK, the only thing you asked of me each night was to make sure I asked you about the band never making it here on that last tour. Why was that so important for you to get across?
Lee: "I'd pushed really hard to get more gigs so that we could do those extra shows and I was unsuccessful. I really felt like I let our British and European fans down. It felt to me incorrect that we didn't do it, but Neil was adamant that he would only do thirty shows and that was it. That to him was a huge compromise because he didn't want to do any shows. He didn't want to do one show. So, in his mind, he'd compromised already. He said, I'll do thirty gigs, don't ask me for any more. So that was that.
"I just kind of felt I owed an explanation to them, the audience. It's part of why I went into the detail I did about Neil's passing in the book, was to let fans in on what went down. That it wasn't a straight line. This is how complicated the whole world of Rush became since August 1 of 2015 until January 7th of 2020 when Neil passed. Those were very unusual, complicated, emotional times. Fans invested their whole being into our band and I thought they deserved a somewhat straight answer about what happened and how their favourite band came to end."
Was it odd on the book tour going back into venues like Massey Hall as a writer and not the bass player and singer for Rush?
Lee: "The first gig on the book tour in the US was at the Beacon Theatre in New York. And we'd played there as the second band on the bill about a hundred years ago, Rory Gallagher was the headliner, I think we got twenty minutes. So, I had really fond memories of that venue. There were a few of those older theatres that we played throughout the book tour that connected to me back to those early days of the band. But the book tour was so edifying, and I was shocked how comfortable I was in that situation. I didn't expect that from myself. Because there I was without a bass guitar in my hands, just walking out on stage and sort of bearing my soul to our fan base. It was an unmissable experience for me."
Staying with the book tour, Al, you came out as the surprise host in Portsmouth - the roar when you appeared was deafening.
Lifeson: "It's a beautiful thing to be loved by strangers. And it was great to sit down with Geddy and do that, same thing with Massey Hall when we did the evening there. The reaction was so positive. And what a great book, I loved it. I laughed out loud, teared up and was engrossed throughout. I tell everyone who hasn't read it that they have to! I know most of his story and lived through much of it. Having a bond with another person to this degree is fortuitous and a blessing.
"Our friendship is so deep that it's difficult to describe. We try to spend time together weekly and keep in touch nearly daily. He just returned from a four week stay in London and I was so excited when he reached out to let me know he was back that I felt giddy. I get giddy for Geddy!"
Stepping away from Rush briefly, there's a second Envy Of None album due imminently. You mentioned how happy it makes you playing and creating music just for the sheer joy of it. What has that project brought you?
Lifeson: "I'm a golf slut and spent just a third of my usual time playing this year as I was in the studio working. The Envy of None project has been very important to me. Since the last Rush tour, it has provided me with purpose. I love writing and working with other very talented musicians. I love how it has forced me to think in different terms about the role guitar has in modern music. It has inspired me to play daily and investigate uncommon tones and colours. I love music and its power. Being that guy from Rush who plays like some guy not from Rush is liberating and allows me to share my love of the instrument that has been vital to my existence."
Talking of extra curricular activities, there's another book coming out, more akin to your Big Book Of Bass in tone and content: 72 Stories - From The Collection Of Geddy Lee, combining your love of collecting and baseball.
Lee: "The reason I wrote it originally was to coincide with the sale of some of my baseball memorabilia. I basically chose seventy-two of the most interesting stories behind some of those items that were in my collection."
I recall you showing me your collection, with some baseballs signed by US Presidents. Was it hard letting those things go? Your love of baseball is well known.
Lee: "I have the balls of President Kennedy, just for the record. I do love baseball. I love a lot of things though and I collect a lot of things. And I'm not getting younger, and I realised that I hadn't really added to my baseball collection in years. And I just felt that a collection is a living thing. Collections need feeding and watering. And I wasn't doing that anymore. I thought it's time to release some of my flock. I kept anything that had a personal resonance to me. Obviously, anything that was gifted to me from players. Anything that represented my love of the Blue Jays. I kept all that stuff, but I parted with some significant items and put them back out there in the world for other collectors to be the next custodian of.
"I have a house full of bass guitars and photos and first edition books and all the crazy shit that I collect. It's just too much. One day 1' be gone, and I don't want to leave this burden behind to my children to spend the rest of their life sorting out the crap that I collect. So, it was time to move some pieces on. Before I did, I wanted to write something about them so that I'd had a record of my favourite pieces or my favourite stories."
Can you imagine there'll ever come a day when some of the basses go too?
Lee: "I don't know yet. There's still a lot of those basses that I want to try to use for some practical purpose. But yeah, some of it, obviously. I'll probably start to move along to other collectors and things like that."
Do you still collect basses?
Lee: "I'm very particular now. You know, there was about an eight-year period where I was really passionate about it. And with collectors, you never really know if it's the item itself or if it's the search for the item; the chase is better than the catch. And I found really rare things, beautiful things. I learned so much about my instrument and it kind of felt in a way I was paying something back to the instrument that gave me everything I have. But as I get older, I just don't know where those things will fit in the future."
Going back to the R40 tour, one of the highlights of those shows was you playing a huge selection of your bass collection throughout the set as the evening wore on.
Lee: "We used twenty-seven basses each night, all vintage basses, with the exception of a couple of my standbys. My poor bass tech, he was lean and fit by the end of that tour just from going back and forth at the side of the stage. Again, we know it was not meant to be the farewell, but ; it was a nice way of working that Ls dynamic in and I love those details."
R40 signalled the end of the band. But Vapor Trails, after Neil's tragedies, felt like a new beginning. Geddy once said it was his favourite period in the band - no petty arguments, just embracing the moment.
Lifeson: "Agreed. Rebirth can be like that. Filtering out all the trivial and focusing on what counts. It changed how we worked as songwriters too, how we interacted. That album was a turning point. We are two very different songwriters and arrangers. I'm somewhat more immediate and instinctive whereas he is more focused and methodical. These are primary personality traits that contributed to our partnership and the synergy of our efforts. I remember, the first few weeks in the studio for that record, we didn't play a single note, we talked, really.
"Then we started writing, it took a couple of months just to clear the cobwebs. Most of the stuff we originally wrote was us just going through the motions, I think, a lot of it sounded dated. And then we took a break and when we came back the machine started rolling and the record took on a life of its own."
What do you remember about that live return in 2002? Neil once said, "In that moment, we just looked at each other and it was just so very powerful and emotional, so right."
Lifeson: "That was how it felt, I remember that; Ged and I turning to the drum riser, jamming it up, doing that rock'n'roll thing, and Thad to fight to contain my emotions, I almost lost control a few times that night, it was a very emotional concert. Tears were flowing within the entire arena, including on the stage."
You're still best friends, you two still meet up and hang out and jam once a week.
Lifeson: "It's good to jam with friends as you get older. I need to play. Once a week I go to Ged's it's in the calendar - keep my fingers moving, play Rush stuff, new jams. We do record it, but I couldn't even begin to tell you where it'll go."
Lee: "Al and I are lifelong friends. We jam together once in a while, it's true. That's all I want to say about that right now."
Though the pull of music's still strong? We heard some unreleased tracks from your 2000 solo album My Favorite Headache on the book tour.
Lee: "I've been spending the summer getting my fingers in shape because all these other day jobs I've taken - TV, writing and all that - have taken me away from my playing. And so, this was a summer that | dedicated to being at home for my family and also to be able to get my fingers back in shape and to get my head around writing different things, writing poetry and prose. And I don't know if that will end in those things becoming songs, if they'll surface in music or be left as prose. I don't know.
"But I needed this time to touch base with all those things that made me a musician and all those things that I had been ignoring to do these other projects. And that's where I am. I'm sort of at a crossroads where I don't know which way that will go. But I feel better prepared if I do decide to step into the breach and make music again."